England v Italy [Euro 2012 Quarter Finals]

[bertcocaine]

I'm not convinced the problem is either - it remains to be seen for me.

The players should be good enough. Despite the (somewhat justified) slagging off of Milner and Young, they are both wingers for the two best clubs in the Premier League, and at 2 of the top 6 clubs in the world. Questioning their quality is foolish.

Whether these players perform for their country is the big issue - Rooney for one feel far short of the standard we expect from him.

I think Roy did a great job considering the time frame and the history - In the time he had, he could do little more than make sure the team were organised, and defensively solid. He achieved that brilliant methinks.

what he couldn't do in the time was progress to attacking fluidity and ball retention. These are things that will come, and I've no doubt he'll tweak the players used to include the likes of the Ox and Wilshere, changing the way we play.

I mostly agree with cleanprophet's assessment - the tactics weren't making the most of the key players. For them, it was a backwards step. Milner struggled somewhat in Mancini's first full season at City, where he concentrated on defense (very well as I recall). With the resources of the club, access to whatever players he fancied, and 18 months full time, Mancini progressed nicely. Young moved away from Villa to get away from the 'survival' mentality, and slotted straight in the United's 'winning' mentality, showing he can do it at the top level. Roy has done the first half in a few games and a few weeks; but was never going to manage the whole process in the time he had.

It remains to be seen if he has time to complete the mission, given the number of games he'll manage part time with little player access, but the team spirit and togetherness is definitely the right start. I'll be looking forward to what he does in the next game - and I'll be disappointed to see the same team player for the qualifiers. We need to blood some young players in competition, not just friendlies, and to do that properly we need to take some risks in qualifying.

[bertcocaine]

Why England are and will be shit

That article is two years old, so the numbers are probably a little out of date.

Those stats show little.. only that England have a much bigger pool of players. Given our population isn't proportionally larger than those countries, it's not reasonable to expect us to have the same proportion of coaches (from a maths viewpoint). I'd be curious as to how those figures are calculated - it may simply show that we have far more organised football at grass roots, adding to the player pool without achieving much.

However the article headlines with far more powerful stats:

• Only 2,769 English coaches hold Uefa's B, A and Pro badges
• Spain has 23,995, Italy 29,420 and Germany 34,790

More stats impacted by the lack of export - how many English managers are there of overseas clubs? (excluding the bull shit token appointments of old names from England who are there for their name not their ability as a manager )

How many foreign managers are there in English football (and not just the Premier League)?

Also, is there a pressure issued caused by the much larger number of players? There must be more teams, must be more demand for managers, and those slots must be filled - suggesting not a lack of coaches in general, just qualified ones. Why are more coaches not doing their badges? Because they are too busy learning as they go in a baptism of fire, and quickly replaced if no good, or moving on up if they are.. no time for education just get working!

"It is no coincidence that sports achieving success on the international stage place great store on quality coaching – not just at the highest level but right throughout the athlete and player development pathway."

This is why we do so well in certain Olympic sports. Maybe being in the Olympics is the right thing for it..



Here's a question (slightly off topic) - How is it Scotland is so damn good at producing managers, but not so great at producing players?

[devilsarcade]

We have produced some great players over the years (not recently of course) but you are right, lots of quality managers out there but a shit league with shit teams and really shit national team.

[Ben2710]

Someone who was really disappointing was Rooney! I mean yea he is a world class player for United and has shown it in the past for England, but this tournament he didn't turn up. He scored one tap in which anyone could have scored after that he did nothing.

Instead of taking Welbeck off for Carroll I would have liked to have seen Caroll and Welbeck up front to see how that would have worked out.

[cleanprophet]

gerrard is captain and rightly so....if you think henderson,carrol or johnson are helping the team you are just wrong.they didnt bring anything to the table.same goes for young and millner.

And Rooney too. He was a disgrace at the last world cup, got himself sent off at previous tournaments and missed the first 2 games of this one. Is there more of a let down for England?

then you say the players were not the problem.i dont get that.the problem is that england doesnt have enough class to compete at the highest level...

It's simple really. Play to your strengths. England don't do that and haven't done that for over 20 years.

[GWolf1]

Playing great at club level is one thing, the basics of passing and give and go at International level is another. Many managers will fail, and will continue to do so until skill and technique is taught from a young age. But needs to be passed on at grassroots and professional levels of the game.